Some Thoughts On Seed Starting
 

Well, I'm trying to get a jump on the season and get a few crops in the ground early. Instead of peas, lettuce or a similar plants suited to cooler weather I have decided to try things that are more immediately interesting to me but which really need warm weather and full sun... corn and sunflowers. I'll make it work. Anyway, I learned a few things from my experimentation so far that might be helpful to others.

* Water from my pond caused seeds to sprout much more quickly than water from my well. I have a full, vibrant ecosystem in my pond so I'd attribute that to extra nutrients in the water.

* I initially was planting the seeds in yogurt cups because I eat more yogurt than is reasonable so I have a lot of those little cups. I put them in a plastic coat box thingy to make them easy to move. My wife suggested just putting dirt in the box with no cups, it ends up it works great!

* Corn needs to be really wet to sprout. I put the corn in dry dirt then watered, nothing. I really had to soak it down. It'd probably behoove you to get the dirt nice and soggy before planting the corn if you're not going to do the trick with the wet paper towel.

* Since I knew the root would grow out the pointy end of the seed I planted them pointy end down. Logical, right? Well, it doesn't work out as well in real life as it did in my imagination. A horizontal orientation seems to be more in line with what the seed wants to do. Logical in its own way, too.

* Culling seed is a tricky subject. If you just want what something that's true to type pick the biggest, best formed seeds. If you plant everything though you might get a neat suprise. One of my sunflowers ended up being twins, I'm going to try and develop this into a consistently twin strain, there's even a possibility there were two kernels in the shell. This is another advantage of seed starting in trays, you can spot this kind of stuff early. If you have a lot of seed you can also ruthless cull out any of the seeds that were slower to sprout or grow.

Re: Some Thoughts On Seed Starting
 

have been trying to start wild roses (rose hips)from seed with only about 10 percent success if anybody out there has any advice on improving success
i would apreciate it

Re: Some Thoughts On Seed Starting
 

http://www.alaskarosesociety.org/doc...seed_germ1.htm

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/r...310016173.html

small grocery plastic containers with clear lids make great mini hot-houses for colder climes.

Re: Some Thoughts On Seed Starting
 

just start old time roses off of cuttings.....guarantee better than 10 %.......70-80%.......this is the perfect time.......start them in soil or water

www.dirtdoctor.com

Re: Some Thoughts On Seed Starting
 

I think some seeds require a slightly warmer temperature to sprout. How about placing your sprouting apparatus on top of the refrigerator where it's a little warmer?

Re: Some Thoughts On Seed Starting
 

2 ?'s

1. Metalophile - what is that coin you are using as ur avatar? Please PM me if you don't want to take this thread in a separate direction.

2. I know people have ordered heirloom seeds, has anyone actually planted them and if so how was the yield from these seeds? Who did you use for heirloom seeds? I know a number of people have suggested Walton and the Ark but wanted to know if e=anyone has actually planted them and the results, are the yields different from store bought seeds?

TIA

Re: Some Thoughts On Seed Starting
 

and on top your hot water system is choicest place in cloder climes....flat and directly above heat source....

Rev's right, place 'em down sideways, they do the rest...i tried every orientation with Pandanus seeds, which are actually shapped like big teeth but are obviously woody, and sideways was waaay the best. They actually like the easy access of the root and shoot from one side of the seed as i understand it...soaking some seeds is mandatory, peat moss is a great germination medium...BUT good compost; 1 week old previously 'hot' composted soil is beyond good, it is outrageous. Got a hot heap on the go now...just shake and add water! :bath: once complete, let stand, the ultimate weed infestation/green waste cocktail....chink! :bandito:

Germination rates with non-hybrids in properly hot composted medium is miraculously high, heat is the magic ingredient for both compost and germination, just enough, not too much, I enjoy the finesse of it all, beautifull...

Re: Some Thoughts On Seed Starting
 

Heirloom seeds=ordinary seeds. There is no difference. It's just a inexact way to say non-hybrid seed. Many common seeds are non-hybrid anyway, however, many seeds (esp maize) are hybrid too. This is where a catalog that contains all the additional information is invaluable.

In general, hybrid seeds are tougher and produce more/better. That's why they bother to sell them and not their purebred parents. But there are plenty of purebreds in most things that are just as good. Indian corn, either the narrow-row varieties (good for drying) or a variety called "Butcher" corn are as prolific as expensive hybrids, although I wouldn't guarantee that on a per-acre basis. A small percentage of additional yield can really add up over a few hundred acres, especially when profit margins are almost non-existent.

Coleman has made a science of seed-starting, so I can again recommend his book "The New Market Grower". He advises against starting in containers due to root-binding, but has a whole "soil-block" system that takes a modest start-up resources. Fukuoka recommends pelletizing in clay, and other means of laying the seed as close to their wild behavior as possible--for example, seeding oats under oat straw.

Every seed has special requirements. Every one. Peas start in the cold, they want black compost and water, and will bolt at the first sign of heat. Corn will grow in depleted clay (although they are heavy feeders from the point of view of yield) but will never germinate without exceptional heat. It is of no use to plant them early, for the soil temperature and nothing else will determine their rate. Grapes can grow in rock piles. Apple hate wet feet. Squash are slow starters, hate to be moved, and their behavior depends a lot on the water/heat/frost at the end of the year and so on. You just have to know them all.

Luckily, they all want to grow despite our ignorance, so generally things go well even if you make every possible mistake. That's one reason why the best thing you can do is give them ideal soils, which everyone can agree on. This also solves the problem of plants never moving out of the potting soil plug into the cold, bare clay beyond their toes.

I'd avoid starting anything you don't have to, ever. Over and over we can grow from seed faster than a full-grown transplant. People like to see a whole plant, weeks ahead of itself, but they are greenhouse-soft and will sulk for weeks after planting, letting the late seed overtake them. I haven't perfected how, yet, but I know that even tomatoes can be direct-sown in the far north, and there are seeds that specialize in this. If not, slide back into cherry-tomatoes or other things that are closer to the wild state. You can easily spend 80% of your time growing 20% of plants you shouldn't grow in your land anyway. --That may be from the latitude, or the special heavy/light/sloped/shaded attributes of the acre your garden has. You can save a tremendous amount of time, effort, expense, and heartache by adjusting your crop to the area and realizing that the outliers you grow are a hobby and a loss-leader. If you succed with them, so much the better, but expect a zero-gain activity.

If anyone knows how to start plants without having them turn weak and rangy, or to have them be done at the same time the season starts, or without burning up or molding from the plastic lids/cold frames, filling up your living room/basement, having seeds fail outright, I'd love to hear it. From my point of view, it's just borrowing work.

TS

See how easy it is to write everything I know about gardening?

Re: Some Thoughts On Seed Starting
 

I have used some. I prefer Johnny's and Seed Savers and a few others to get them.

In general tomato and corn yield was lower and flavor better... BUT few seeds were heirloom for my climate. In my great-grandmother's time most families kept seed that did best on their own farm that their family liked best and may have done so for generations and neighbors traded especially good varities. Therefore I would expect to select the better plants to harvest seed from each year to end up with seed adapted to my garden in time.

The sweet banana peppers were happy in the heat and very high yield, as was the yellow crook neck squash. The tomatoes were mostly Pennsylvainia strains and found it too hot for happiness here. Sure tasted good though. And the okra was happy and yielded well. Some things that are summer crops in New England are winter crops here. Purple globe turnips were great all winter. Good greens and good turnips.

Some new open pollinated varieties are nice too, like Bright Lights chard and all the sugar snap peas.

Re: Some Thoughts On Seed Starting
 

From observations of a friend who runs completely off of rainwater he has seen similar results. Since he grew up doing hobby ranching and farming he's always been around rural or well water but noticed when not on rural he had better results. The few years since they switched to being completely rainwater dependent they noticed their hens lay better eggs (and more often) and their garden tends to produce more and of slightly better quality.

Nothing scientific obviously but an interesting observation that came up during our regular small talk.

Re: Some Thoughts On Seed Starting
 

Here is a link that I found today to a site called Seed Saver's Exchange. Apparently they are a non-profit that exchange heirloom seeds.

http://www.seedsavers.org/prodinfo.asp?number=253T

More specifically, it is a link to the product that I bought on their site which is Cherokee Purple tomatoes. This is an heirloom variety that we found at our local farmer's market last summer. They are good. And I mean good.

Re: Some Thoughts On Seed Starting
 

REV I think you are in FL

My japanese sweet potatoes have been one of the best (easy, productive) crops for this climate.

Super easy to propagate. Cut a sweet potato in half and stick the cut end in a cup with water. Or propagate by making cuttings of the shoots. For those up north, you can start the tubers on a windowsill. They will grow in water this way for months.

I like the asian varieties better than domestic, due to taste and texture. If you can't find any locally I'd be happy to mail you a small viable tuber.

They grow as a perrenial down here, and you can pretty much let them run wild as long as they have water. They will creep and climb all over and put down tubers here and there. I found 2 tubers on my concrete patio the other day in a quarter inch of soil.

The leaves are edible and tasty in soup or sauteed. We eat the tubers steamed with just a tiny bit of shoyu. I am addicted.

We also have some malanga growing, which is also known as Taro. Sprouted from tubers bought at publix.

Re: Some Thoughts On Seed Starting
 

I planted about 200 seeds heirloom a few weeks back. Only one tray grew anything.

Lesson one. Don't store the seeds two years before planting. I am just a beginner and now have about 7 plants from it that are barely growing yet.

I also bought some plants to fill in the space. I have a strawberry plant that produces fast. Tastes far better than store bought.

I hope to learn a lot this year and expand.

Re: Some Thoughts On Seed Starting
 

Gnome, sweet potato is on my list though I never heard of a Japanese sweet potato before. I'll have to look that up.


Phoenix,

I would tend to want to use those few plants of yours that did sprout as breeding stock, if they survived two years of storage and sprouted they're probably pretty strong.
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I've got Seminole pumpkin squash in the ground right now, I hope they make it because the few seed companies who carry this squash at all will only give you a small ammount of seed, I managed 15 seeds. The squash is growing vigorously so I'm keeping my finger crossed.

I also started some echinacea since it makes good tea in its own right in addition to its medicinal value. Germination rates were awful and it is allegedly new seed.

The sunflowers have done really well, many of them are coming into bloom now. The thing is they were planted too close together, 1 foot apart. The result was that they are shorter with thinner stems and smaller seed heads than they would have formed if planted at twice that distance. They were also grown in partial shade over cool months, those with Eastern and Western exposures are half as tall as the best on grown with a Southern exposure. My twins which were never seperated are middle of the pack. I'm saving the twins and the tallest sunflowers with the thickest stems and moving them somewhere with more light.

The other downside of growing these sunflowers too close together is that they weren't as thick or well rooted as they could have been and have been knocked down twice in storms so far. The good news is you can't hardly stop'em. I haven't used any stakes, just mounded dirt up around their bases to get them upright and they keep growing. I even have one that was attacked by my chickens, stripped of leaves and litterally kinked in half. I mounded dirt around it and while it is stunted it has continued to grow and developed a seed head. The sunflowers have been unphased by freezing temps.

The corn has grown slowly, only making any real headway in the past month. I was hoping to capitalize on the frequent warm days we get even in the dead of Winter down here but the corn just isn't interested in growing much. It has had excellent survivability though. We had two nights of freezing temps and high winds that killled the leaves on half the corn plants but just about every one of them sprang back. Currently some of my tallest corn plants are those who were injured by the freeze. This was a test crop only and I will direct sow the majority of my corn seed in a few weeks. My little corn field right now is large enough to grow 900 plants and I can up that to a maximum of about 1200 in that area with a little more digging.

Well, this experiment has been somewhat of a failure. The plants grew but slowly and at disadvantage. Starting isn't such a good idea with sunflower because as a seedling they want to send down a long tap root to help anchor the plant and the shallow starting cop has interfered with that. It's the same for corn but the corn seems to have anchored itself well anyway. The corn just doesn't want to grow much unless I have a week or more of warm weather. It is also in heavy clay soil that and I suspect that the roots have had a hard time pushing through during the dry season. Now that we're getting rain the ground is much, much softer.

I do believe starting is a viable technique but these two crops just aren't really suited to it. So far it does seem to have worked well with the Seminole pumpkin squash.

No luck germinating the papaya at all yet, it may be the temp's in the 70's or something else but it's been a month and no action. I was driving through a neighborhood in Tampa though and did see a papaya tree with fruit that apparently came through the winter without any trouble so I'll keep at it till I get it to work.

I ran across a native cactus while walking in the woods, it's an oputina of unknown type but has smallish thick fleshy pads. I enjoy the fruit from some kinds of oputina so I took a pad that had fallen to the ground. It's taken about 2 months or so but it has budded and is growing another pad. It'll probably take a couple years to get a big cactus out of it and I hope to gather a few others of its type to keep the genetic diversity up a little rather than just cloning this one plant. I know the location of another larger oputina cactus that regularly produces delicious, sweet fruit and I may collect it as well.

I believe we are in a period of climate change and I'm concerned about drought for sure but divided over whether to expect cooler or hotter overall temperatures in the future. The cactus will handle all three down here. I'm currently researching a watermelon that is supposed to be extremely drought hardy as well. I'm thinking of maintaining a smaller side bed of climate change SHTF crops that I can convert over to, just in case.